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Confirm/Deny: All T1 Expanded Cargohold BPOs are now T2

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Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 14:16:00 - [1] Originally by: Wayback I'll add my name on to this. This is sad and some of the most poorly implenmented stunts I've seen to date. So let me get this strait, the population of EVE is going up and the avalibility of new T2 BPO's is almost extinct. So instead of spreading the wealth and maintianing the old system (weather you liked it or not) CCP chose to, in essence, play favorites. Tin foil hat time!! So how many personal CCP friends had this BPO? I can only theorize that CCP sells isk themselves thru a keen disguise of players accounts with these bpos.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 14:37:00 - [2] Originally by: Silver Lady Originally by: Cyrio Originally by: Grash Freedom Edited by: Grash Freedom on 10/11/2006 14:07:26 This is the only logical thing that can happen! Its the only way not to screw the holders of the prints that wasted billions on them, and they will get x3-4 the ammount they invested (fair enough) If CCP does anything else then.... we are all doomed and i mean that with the worst possible way EVE market WILL die! You mean they INVESTED in this BPO. Not all investments pan out. Tough cookies if they don't get thier money back. Can I buy stock in your company for a guarenteed pay off of x3-4 of my investment. The same could be said for those who dont invest and get nothing? You chose not to invest in one of these bpos and lost out, tough luck. Point is, our time is our investment... we're given false hope we are actually doing somthing to gain a chance at getting a t2 bpo.. in the end, they just hand them out as upgradee. bull****.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 16:22:00 - [3] I think CCP needs to be held accountable for there actions and not cower under tables and behind walls during this discussion. They need to provide answers and explanations as to why the few with these t1 bpos weigh a far greater decision to the thousands who have had hopes and dreams for 3 years or longer to one day achieving the most anticipated t2 bpo... the cargo exp II. Of course not everyone can and will ever win a t2, but the hope for one is always there and that is what many of us dream of achieving. It is in my mind, inexcusable for them to do this. The cargo 1 bpo is a t1. The players themselves put the value on that bpo and everyone who bought it for billions knew the risk of ding so. Why do they get rewarded for a value place on a bpo NOT by CCP, but by the members. Those buying HAC bpos now tke the risk of invention lowering the current prices. There is risk in any investment, and CCP basically gave more isk for already being rich. This is a complete hackjob by CCP and its an outrage. I demand explanations, and reasons to why you decided to screw over your community. In the end, you can do what you want with your game, but the time invested here is so much more valubale than you guys can every perceive. You intice us with patches and expansions... delay them... prolong our play... mislead your intentions... and completly dangle us on a thread until you decide to one day screw us over yet again. Time after time, you make bad choices and do not stand up for your decisions. Either get a pair, or keep cowering in the shallaw grave you deserve.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 16:44:00 - [4] Originally by: Clavius XIV The only folks who are hurt by this are the folks who were hoping that their research agent would give them expanded cargo II BPOs. Fortunatly if you have a lot of RP with those sorts of agents, you will have a leg up on getting the datacores needed for invention of TII cargos so they aren't wasted RP. Far more hurt folks than you can perceive. Its about what the t2 lottery was intended to be. And this is a hackjob on the worst order. You reward the rich owners with far more riches than they can ever imagine. Invention may or may not be a solution, no one knows. This slaps in the face those who have played YEARS, and CCP is simply stating their value of time and effort is nothing. Yet again we were dragged on for the ride, paying our monthly fee... to have hopes and dreams shattered. CCP needs to wake up. Players efforts need to be rewarded. The need to know they can retain hope, and this crushes it. CCP shame on you.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 17:35:00 - [5] Edited by: Lord Frost on 10/11/2006 17:38:45 Originally by: Clavius XIV 1) Release T1 BPO on the market, Release T2 through lottery. You are taking an existing asset from someone and making it worthless. Basicaly taking roughly 8Bil from the wallets of everyone who owns the T1 BPO. Impact: those who purchased or won the BPO have a 8 billion hit to their assets over night. About an equal number of folks take their place and get an asset injection. Everyone else can invent. They knew what they bought was a risk... an investment. It most likely paid off if they produced and sold it wisely. Companies rise and fall... sorry, but if this was the choice the profits they did get, would far outweigh the value of their useless t1 bpo. Besides... all t2 will enventually hit market? Are you going to reward those with t2 lots of t3? It doesn't make sense. CCP lied and flat out screwed what the planned to do. Quote: 2) Release T2 through lotto, keep T1 as is. A few lotto winnders hit the jackpot, and get bascily the only T2 BPO besides cloaks that can't be invented (and invention is what is needed to bring more competition to the t2 market). The vast majority don't get the expander AND can never invent them. Impact: Hundereds of thousands of players can never build a T2 expanded cargo. T1 producers not impacted. A few folks get benifit from their RP and get a BPO. Other researchers are screwed since they can't use their RP to build expanded cargo iis since they can't be invented Can't invent them? You can't invent anything as it is now. Besides, this would never of been the case. T2 bpo out before t1 is just an obsurd mistake. Quote: 3) Change T1 to T2, make t1 available on market (basics were changed to t1). Impact: Everyone can use invention to get their own T2 cargo. Of the folks who were hoping to win a T2 expanded cargo from the lotto, some portion of them who would have, will not, but nothing changes from the day before.. they are not poorer. Those who made it the focus of their research are rewarded by having a leg up on inventing the T2 version (due to the way the invention parts are aquired). IMO loosing a chance at isk is a lot worse than loosing actual isk. The only solution that would have avoided screwing either BPO hopefuls or existing holders screws the server at large (with no invention being possible). CCP made the right choice here. Now fix the cloak issue CCP! Bad choice... worst choice... wrong choice. CCP does not need to cater to those who spent billions on a bpo the players put the value on. Yes it was a rare bpo, but its a t1 bpo. Not my fault what anyone pays for anything in this game if the next day its worthless. Its the risk vs reward... and that plays to all fields of the game, including what you buy. This is far from the free player driven market. CCP hands out new t2 bpos to the t1 owners.... why? cuz they paid a ton for them? what a dumb excuse. If anything, they should get a very limited t2 COPY... and release all t1 to market and do your stupid lottery as intended for the t2. As it stands now, many are scamming from this whole catastrophe and due to CCPs lack of notifying people, billions are being made. Its a joke, and it screws out everyone who had hopes and dreams for a few little rich *****s that don't need 10x more than what they have! PERIOD!
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 18:37:00 - [6] Originally by: Clavius XIV As an average player I can buy get expanded cargo I much cheaper, and even build them myself on site deep in 0.0 As an average player I now have a shot at inventing expanded cargo IIs come Kali since the T1 BPO is available As an average player I wouldn't have won the lotto for the T2 item even if it was relased through the lotto [/b] Seems like a win for the average player to me, and as an average player I am looking forward to it personally. As an average player I lost years of work and effort cause CCP decided to ignore their own rules on this issue. As an average player I'm disgusted with the wealth and monopolies in the billions and for the last year CCP still has refused to hear our cries on t2 prices. As an average player I only hope one day my work and effort reward sme with a t2. As an average player cargo Is were cheap and not a real impact on hauling expansions as the other named one were. As an average player even if current t1 owners didnt upgrade to t2, i'd still have a chance to invent a t2 come Kali if t1 was put on maket and t2 in lottery like it was planned. As an average player I'd rather see the lottery go to someone new than a current trillionaire...e ven if I dont win.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 20:57:00 - [7] ... still waiting for a dev response... they may be having a lawyer read over their statement to the public. LOL. Truth is, they'd rather do nothing and risk losing a few members then agree to having made a huge mistake. So I'll leave you with this... play this game as hardcore as you can. Never trust anyone, dec war on all noobs, steal, scam, and destroy everyone in your path. If you are a director, take everything your corp has... don't have any compassion for the little man... don't fear anything. One for one, and all for all. I call for all corp theives or anyone who ever thought about total rampage and ruining of the game for multiple players to step up and do your drastic measures! We will not go quietly into the night! We will not cower like those that claim to lead us! We will fight and we will rain down evil wrath amongst everyone!
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Glarion Garnier Aparently one guy had collected quite a few of those tech 1 cargo expander bpos. I believe it. He's prolly the one guy that CCP saw and decided they had to upgrade him with all t2 because he already spent so much. He's prolly the one guy CCP decided to make more important than the other 100 thousand subscribers. He prolly the one guy that would whine if CCP did what they misled everyone else to believe they were doing... such as putting these t2 bpos in the lottery! ... where they belong! Anyone knows that what you buy is a risk... they all knew they were buying rare t1 bpos. It doesnt matter how much they spent on them. It matters how much time everyone else put in hoping to get one! THAT is what is so ****** up about this. CCP values isk more than your time and effort. What a joke.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Bermag I really don't understand why people are so upset about this. Except for those who has been buying expanded cargo I bpcs. The only thing you might have lost is the very small chance to have won a T2 Expander BPO in the future. Becuase you are handing over someone who made billions on a rare bpo, another bpo that will indeed make their last billions look like pocket change. The bpos should of been released like they intended too... in the lottery. The same lottery we all whined about and the same lottery they (CCP) stood by... and the same lottery we all trusted and put our hopes into. We all know our chances are slim to none in getting any t2 bpo, but this is just a slap in the face. Little hope became NO hope... and in the end I'd rather have little hope and someone who deserves to make billions be rewared for putting in his time and effort. Not some hack who could of got his few bil from timecards or ebay, then bought an expanded bpo... time... effort... that is what Eve is about. Its not about logging in to toss in more runs on a bp and making billions. We were promised if we put in the time and effort to gain more RPS we'd have a better chance. Is that the case here? NO... and its simply wrong to decieve your members that way. CCP is wrong.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 23:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Hockston Axe I really donÆt know what to say. Where IÆm from the usual response to the perpetrator of such an injustice would and could only be, ôF* You.ö No... the words "F* You" are too kind in this case.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:22:00 - [11] Its good to know our amazing devs are partying it up at Fan Fast while not yet once responding to this issue. We now see their priorities.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:42:00 - [12] Sometimes they just set themselves up for this.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Draca Longen Originally by: Mazza Guys its time to let CCP know that they can't go on Fú$king us over like this. They misinform they lie and they cheat, as we all know its about the money and their happy that they get it and they just think they can ignore us all so we waste time and money playing their game its time to vote with our feet and wallets. cut their cash they have to listen.......... I for one have already decided to leave, im voting with the 3 paying accounts I have. This is the last T2 straw for me. Hate the game, not the players. I'm right behind you... unless I get banned first! Muwahahahaa
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Berry Blue I don't see what the problem is. The people who won the CE1 BPO put in the skill training, did the missions, and put in the effort to get them in the T2 lottery. Why should they have that effort and work reduced to nothing? In the market fix,to finally seed all T1 BPO. They get an upgrade to the CE2 BPO, and everyone gets access to a CE1 BPO in Kali. So they get the CE2 BPO which they should have had in the first place had the market been correct, and everyone gets access to a T1 BPO. As has been pointed out before, in Kali everyone who does not have a T2 BPO, can make their own T2 BPC using invention (which uses the T1 BPC last time I checked). So the people who invested in T1 BPC's should be able to get something out of it, and Lord Frost (if he redirects the considerable energy he uses in rabidly spamming this thread) can use his research points to help him get a T2 BPC too. We were promised if we put in the time and effort to gain more RPS we'd have a better chance. Is that the case here? NO... and its simply wrong to decieve your members that way. CCP is wrong. Yes, t2 expanders can be researched, in a yet to be proven tactic... where does this lead us now? Many who have t2 worked hard and long for them... so whats to happen when t3 comes out? Are you telling me the t2 owners will whine their t2 wont be profitable anymore? I suppose CCP will just feel bad and hand them all the t3 versions. All good things come to an end... sorry if their bpos would be useless. I'm sure they made plenty already on them. CCP told us to do something and we did. We all expected these bpos to be in the lottery... and now they are not. THAT IS WRONG.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:21:00 - [15] Originally by: Berry Blue Originally by: Lord Frost We were promised if we put in the time and effort to gain more RPS we'd have a better chance. Is that the case here? NO... and its simply wrong to decieve your members that way. CCP is wrong. Yes, t2 expanders can be researched, in a yet to be proven tactic... where does this lead us now? Many who have t2 worked hard and long for them... so whats to happen when t3 comes out? Are you telling me the t2 owners will whine their t2 wont be profitable anymore? I suppose CCP will just feel bad and hand them all the t3 versions. All good things come to an end... sorry if their bpos would be useless. I'm sure they made plenty already on them. CCP told us to do something and we did. We all expected these bpos to be in the lottery... and now they are not. THAT IS WRONG. They should have been given the T2 BPO in the first place. They were given the T1 as the market had not been seeded properly. In effect, they are only now getting their prize. The RP's that you have gained are not worthless, and as I said, they can be used to obtain T2 BPC's. Invention is still being tweaked on sisi, so going there and trying out the process, providing your input there would be useful, and appreciated. If you have a BPC and research points, all the better. For those that have BPC with large numbers of runs. I'm sure your attempts at invention would be of great interest to the bug hunters and devs. With some discussion, maybe you could come to some agreement as to your satisfaction that way. With respect to T3 BPO, who knows? I suspect that it will only require T1 and new T3 components, so it shouldn't depend on T2 at all. Who says they were supposed to be giving the t2 bpo? Where is this stated? From what I hear the t2 cargo was supposed to be seeded in the lottery back in RMR. And if this upgrade was the case all along where was that noted? And who in their right mind would sell a t1 bpo where its getting great profits and knowing it will become a t2. This was never announced. CCP never made this clear in any way. Everyone believed they were working on an agent that would be part of a lottery for this highly sought after t2. It's the same case we go thru time after time... people work, train, put in countless hours and then... surprise! You're screwed... not even in the lottery. I'm more upset about being misled than anything. But from the looks of it, CCP doesn't care. And it amazes me how they can't even announce this decision once it was made. WTF is up with that? People in game still don't have a clue what's happened... and scams are wide spread. Is that fair? What about the t1 bpcs? Those stayed the same and people bought them for large amounts of isk. They don't get anything... is that fair? I find it so hard to believe CCP would rather reward the rich instead of spreading wealth to the community who had stood by them and their hopes in the lottery for far longer than you can comprehend. I'll say it again, its wrong. I made my point... and until CCP steps up to the plate with an explantion that I can accept, or a nerf of this entire situation... they lost 2 accounts.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 14:42:00 - [16] Edited by: Lord Frost on 11/11/2006 14:43:51 Originally by: Silver Lady How exactly is releasing 20 bpos via the lottery classed as spreading the wealth between the community? 20 whole people = the community? I say your just angry because you didn't get a bpo. Because thats 20 new players who followed CCP directions on how to aquire t2 and who are most likely not part of the current billionaire club. 20 new players who are here for hopes and dreams of wealth in a research lottery they were told to do. Its not the same hack who won a rare t1, which was NEVER supposed to be t2, since t1s were not available. I keep hearing that, and its just bull. Their rare t1 was NEVER intended to be t2. CCP obviously left out some t1 bpos from the market so some t1 items could still be rare and profitable. I'm sorry, all good things come to an end eventually, and if their bpo played it course, so be it. If they bought it for billoins, the took the risk. They KNEW they were buying a t1 item that was given as a t1, that was never stated it would be t2. There are a ton of t2 bpos winners that dont even have a profitable bpo. Do you think they deserve more? Personally, I could care less if I got 1... I'm angry for being misled, and so are others. I'm angry this was unannounce and CCP doesnt care peopel in the game STILL don't know whats going on... and many are getting scammed. This is a low of all lows on CCPs part. They don't care for their own mass communitry to do something like this.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 17:47:00 - [17] Well it looks like along with them all pretty hung over from Fan Fest and the new merger with White Wolf... CCP can afford to lose a few disgruntled subscribers. I don't expect an asnwer from any of them until atleast Monday. We wouldn't want to ruin their weekend... and if they do respond, don't expect much other than "What is done is done." CCP has grown mainly due to their fans and players, and its those same fans and players they are now snubbing. Greed has got into the bloods of all the devs... profits and parties are now more important than honor and dedication. I feel left behind but such a great company that once stood for its mass of players. I saw it coming, slowly they made bad decisions for the game, and better decisions for their wallets. Its the same ole story... feed them, **** them, forget them.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.12 02:07:00 - [18] Originally by: Futuri Edited by: Futuri on 11/11/2006 22:56:34 Heh it's nice to see that although CCP don't care to explain themselves, they were kind enough to tip someone off before the BPO conversion: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=424733 OMFG... yes, that does smell like yesterday's dirty diapers. Something stinks... and it looks like CCP.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.12 14:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Deathdealerdoc They changed over my micro cap battery 1 bpo to a junk small cap battery 1 bpo instead of the t2 variant like the expanded cargo hold 1s got. I suppose this is because the micro battery bpo II has already been seeded but sucks getting the shaft. Very frustrating. Join the long list of thousands who got shafted... compared to the tiny dozen's of billionaires who came out with the pot of gold.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Nicocat Let's take a look at this again. -Old-time BPO 'winners' got a T1 BPO. Now it's a T2 BPO. Like all the other winners. Expect they go from having a rich monopoly on a okay item, to having a extremely rich monopoly on one of the most sought after bpos... by doing nothing. As opposed to the 1000's wondering why they were told to do research in this field to be in a lottery. Quote: -Cargo expanders drop like candy from rats, especially serps. Not a point that matters anywhere in this issue. Quote: -Basic CEs suck, and now they're banished. Fabulous. Except that it was the only manufactured cargo exp anyone could buy and make. Also, pretty pointless in the overall discussion here. Quote: -T2 expanders are being nerfed anyway. No one knows for sure. Currently they have a better percentage in game than on test server. Yet, another dumb point to try and make your argument work. Quote: -"Making billions" only works if people are stupid enough to buy. I think it has more to do with the rare bpos, than people buying. Again, doesn't fit in the argument, that CCP lied about this whole issue and players got hosed. Quote: I don't see a problem here. Move along. Yes, you please move along... you made no valued opinions at all on the matter.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:32:00 - [21] Yet another day passes, and no reply. They have so much ego and selfishness, they can't be bothered to reply cause now it'll look like they've been painted into a corner and HAVE to talk about this. CCP wants to hold on to the power, and if they break down and talk, then the players would have won. Kind of like how an adult would train a dog. LOL.. I think it really does boil down to that. They have no definite answer that many would accept... so they rather forget it, and forget us... and make it known they are the masters here... what they say goes. Big***s, big egos, big greed, fatter wallets, more disrespect to the players, less communication... all that . Thanks CCP, for the biggest ** up to date, and not having the balls to explain it.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.15 03:35:00 - [22] I think the players need to take the proper steps here. EVERYONE disgusted with this needs to do the following... (for entertainment purposes only) :-) 1. File a petition in-game under 'reimbursement' for your time. 2. File an email petition through the website with tech support asking if this was a technical glitch. 3. Email kieron in-game with your questions, comments, and concerns. 4. Cancel your account until a worthy explanation is given. 5. Activly post on other gaming sites the situation CCP has put you in. 6. Play out the remainder of you gaming subscription sitting at a Jita gate of your choosing. If my calculations are correct... this would be indeed a few thousand people. Hahaha... who's laughing now?

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